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Nomad Chronicler
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Sat Jun 13, 2015 1:01 am

New Fiction is up.

First thoughts: Well written all around. Glad to see the effects of WC 4 showing up in Susumu Naishi re-emerging.

Unicorn thoughts: While I am slightly bothered that, after all of the card printings about the march of the Unicorn, our first fiction is a resounding victory for the Pheonix, I am ok with it. The battle is true to form for Pheonix tactics, and I can't imagine that the ST will leave it at that with no response from the Unicorn in fictions to come.

HOWEVER, I do hope that the Unicorn response isn't written as the Khan calling for rampant brutality, the burning of temples and whatnot. It seems entirely cliche, and while it's plain to see that the ST has been setting up for a conflict between Min-Hee and Naleesh, I don't want it to be over this absurdity. Min-Hee has been set up so that she might order such a thing, but frankly it would be the Moto family who take the flak for it. And really, what with the New Curse(bleh), they are already taking more than their share of hate recently. I'm not just saying that because Moto are my favorite Unicorn family, but because, seriously, they are already re-cursed with something completely un-thematic, are being singled out for targeting by battle shugenja, etc. Hard life right now, no need to point the finger of barbarism as well. We get it, our ancestors were gaijin. Move along, nothing to see here.

I eagerly await the next set of fictions, and hope to see a reasoned and measured response by the Unicorn. If not, so be it. Nergui did say that she was saving her fury for the battlefield, maybe we can see the Moto and Iuchi pull some shugenja shenanagins of their own.

Finally, the treaty made during WC4 was essentially a surrender on the Pheonix's side. We were warned that it may not be implemented directly as made, but even if they plan to push the terms more towards an even exchange of allowances, the Unicorn need to get some fictions where they win. I will be more than mildly irritated if the terms get flipped completely from what Maemuki and the Unicorn Team decided on to be a surrender on our part. But I do not expect that to happen, and maintain the faith that it will be so.

Final thoughts: Welp. No experienced version for Yao-Tsu. Silly Commander, you pack followers so that you can't be ranged attacked. Really shouldn't have skipped that day at Commander College.
Moto Khedai, WC IV

Wielder of too-many words.

"Khedai casts Castle of Earth, calling seven raises. Success. A massive, sturdy, imposing wall of text rises forth at his bidding."-Iuchi Chiwa

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RavenSoul
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Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:03 am

I love L5R stories and all these writers can do with it, I liked most of these tidbits, even with the damaged pride for that defeat :P
Seriously, just Norimishi being on an opposite army can just win you the battle, hes afterall, the E Master.
Just a bit sad that we had no input from the Uni side. It would be great to have a few lines from Yao-tsu or something, when the earthquake began, calming his men, of having him give orders to take out the shuggies (what he actually did himself). In the end, I didnt feel very inclined to be sad with his defeat, as I didnt really knew him or anything. A few lines from him would have given him character, something for us to want to avenge? Would have been cool.
Unicorn Clan • Samurai • Chui • Reserve • Reverse-Destined

I was Ide Ibiki at WC IV

Shinjo Yosama
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Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:13 pm

Nomad Chronicler wrote:
Unicorn thoughts: While I am slightly bothered that, after all of the card printings about the march of the Unicorn, our first fiction is a resounding victory for the Pheonix, I am ok with it. The battle is true to form for Pheonix tactics, and I can't imagine that the ST will leave it at that with no response from the Unicorn in fictions to come.
Agreed here. Then again that was most likely a small skirmishing party being led by Yao Tsu. I saw no mention of any of our own shugenja present for that battle. Also one battle a war does not win.

Ravensoul wrote:
Just a bit sad that we had no input from the Uni side. It would be great to have a few lines from Yao-tsu or something, when the earthquake began, calming his men, of having him give orders to take out the shuggies (what he actually did himself). In the end, I didnt feel very inclined to be sad with his defeat, as I didnt really knew him or anything. A few lines from him would have given him character, something for us to want to avenge? Would have been cool.
I definitely agree here. Our part in the fiction just paints us like lambs to the slaughter. Seems this group just ran head long with no intelligence or thought into their attack. Some dialogue from Yao Tsu could have dispelled that perception, and lent to the perception that he at least did go in with some form of plan, other than ATTACK!!

Shinjo Yosama

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Shinjo Kairu
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Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:44 pm

Image
I shall act as Shinjo's jitte, breaking the sword of any who would harm her people.

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Shinjo Kairu
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Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:45 pm

Awww I thought it would be bigger than that.....
I shall act as Shinjo's jitte, breaking the sword of any who would harm her people.

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Shinjo Kairu
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Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:50 pm



Quote:
Unicorn thoughts: While I am slightly bothered that, after all of the card printings about the march of the Unicorn, our first fiction is a resounding victory for the Pheonix, I am ok with it. The battle is true to form for Pheonix tactics, and I can't imagine that the ST will leave it at that with no response from the Unicorn in fictions to come.




Agreed here. Then again that was most likely a small skirmishing party being led by Yao Tsu. I saw no mention of any of our own shugenja present for that battle. Also one battle a war does not win.

Ravensoul wrote:



Quote:
Just a bit sad that we had no input from the Uni side. It would be great to have a few lines from Yao-tsu or something, when the earthquake began, calming his men, of having him give orders to take out the shuggies (what he actually did himself). In the end, I didnt feel very inclined to be sad with his defeat, as I didnt really knew him or anything. A few lines from him would have given him character, something for us to want to avenge? Would have been cool.




I definitely agree here. Our part in the fiction just paints us like lambs to the slaughter. Seems this group just ran head long with no intelligence or thought into their attack. Some dialogue from Yao Tsu could have dispelled that perception, and lent to the perception that he at least did go in with some form of plan, other than ATTACK!!

Shinjo Yosama
Yeah I would love to see a piece of fiction come out where the Iuchi and Moto death priests humiliate Pheonix shugenja. I think that would be a nice blow to the confidence in there shugenja :twisted:
I shall act as Shinjo's jitte, breaking the sword of any who would harm her people.

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Shinjo Ji-Zhi-Top
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Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:57 pm

Awww I thought it would be bigger than that.....
Uhh what would be bigger? All I see is an empty post
Screw you guys, I'm going home

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Shinjo Ji-Zhi-Top
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Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:58 pm



Quote:
Awww I thought it would be bigger than that.....




Uhh what would be bigger? All I see is an empty post
Oh wait, there it is I guess it just didnt load the first time.

Pretty funny man :lol:
Screw you guys, I'm going home

Shiba Gunichi
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Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:21 pm

Shinjo Kairu wrote:Yeah I would love to see a piece of fiction come out where the Iuchi and Moto death priests humiliate Pheonix shugenja. I think that would be a nice blow to the confidence in there shugenja :twisted:
1. I direct you to the relevant flavor text on the Unicorn's Ishiken (you know, the one who's better than any printed Phoenix ishiken) and an array of Death Priests printed since this plot was inflicted upon us. This single fiction is literally the first time the Phoenix have been shown doing anything but getting stomped into paste by angry Unicorn samurai. So please, try not to piss on our first clear-cut battlefield win as a Clan in over a decade of real-life time.

2. It's so cute that you think we have any confidence in our shugenja- as the 20F Phoenix fiction indicates, the shugenja were doing their thing (incinerating Moto in preference to others) and the Phoenix were losing. That's why Shiba Kakei proposed the change in command structure referenced here.

3. The Phoenix playerbase in general has precisely zero confidence in our ability to win this war... and frankly, zero interest in doing so. If we were fighting about something different, maybe wed be thumping our chests a bit more...but as it stands, Danjiro's thoughts on the slain Yao-Tsu are far more indicative of our general opinion.

4. Danjiro's thoughts also make it plain that this war isn't over- indeed, it seems to just be getting fired up.

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RavenSoul
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Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:18 am

Oh, dont get me wrong, I was expecting to have a few casualties, just didnt think it would be a silent one. It makes for a better story when you can, at least brefly, hear the words of the loser, before hes defeated.
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Shinjo Yosama
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Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:48 am

Greetings Shiba Gunichi,

Yes it certainly was time for the Phoenix to stand victorious. The war up to this point had been rather one sided. I wish that it could have been avoided altogether. This is how I see this whole unfortunate affair. The shugenja who discovered this curse wound had been given all the puzzle pieces, and was even being guided by the fortunes when she made the discovery. She then had at least two options:

1. Choose compassion and continue to search for a way to mend the wound.
2. Choose duty, exposing the wound and rending it wide open.

Given the option to mend or to rend, she chose to rend. The statement proclaimed before all of Rokugan basically declared that the Unicorn have no honor, posses no nobility, are less than eta, declaring open hunting season on anyone born Unicorn. Oh how I wish it could all have been avoided by her choosing compassion. This has been a senseless war that has cost both our clans too much.

Shinjo Yosama, Unicorn Clan Strategist, Explorer, Protector of Ki-Rin Pass
Last edited by Shinjo Yosama on Tue Jun 16, 2015 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Daidoji Tacticus
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Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:25 am

I wouldn't blame the unfortunate shugenja who made the discovery. She didn't make the decision of what to do with the information. Blame the Jade Champion and Elemental Council for their staggering political ineptitude. Really, people, you couldn't think of anything to do between "privately approach the Unicorn ourselves" and "bellow the information from every rooftop"? Send better courtiers? Give them a few more months to digest what you just told them and make their own investigations? Quietly approach someone else to intercede? Gosh, if only the Phoenix had a long-standing alliance with a bunch of political experts who are also old friends of the Unicorn. Wouldn't that have been handy?
Ceterum autem censeo Otomines esse delendam.

Player of Asahina Umeko at Winter Court IV.

Shinjo Yosama
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Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:52 am

True enough it is not fair to hold her completely responsible. After all she did hope she was wrong, She showed her superiors. Then when they confirmed her research, her superiors who should have known better aired the dirty laundry. Maybe eventually she can play a role in curing this new Moto curse.

Shinjo Yosama

Shiba Gunichi
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Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:07 pm

I have yet to find ANYONE who can cogently defend the Council's approach to the matter. It's why the Winter Court treaty worked out to be, in essence, a Phoenix surrender- because none of us, as players, could think of a way in which the Council hadn't needlessly botched things.

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Shinjo Kairu
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Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:50 pm



Shinjo Kairu wrote:
Yeah I would love to see a piece of fiction come out where the Iuchi and Moto death priests humiliate Pheonix shugenja. I think that would be a nice blow to the confidence in there shugenja :twisted:




1. I direct you to the relevant flavor text on the Unicorn's Ishiken (you know, the one who's better than any printed Phoenix ishiken) and an array of Death Priests printed since this plot was inflicted upon us. This single fiction is literally the first time the Phoenix have been shown doing anything but getting stomped into paste by angry Unicorn samurai. So please, try not to piss on our first clear-cut battlefield win as a Clan in over a decade of real-life time.

2. It's so cute that you think we have any confidence in our shugenja- as the 20F Phoenix fiction indicates, the shugenja were doing their thing (incinerating Moto in preference to others) and the Phoenix were losing. That's why Shiba Kakei proposed the change in command structure referenced here.

3. The Phoenix playerbase in general has precisely zero confidence in our ability to win this war... and frankly, zero interest in doing so. If we were fighting about something different, maybe wed be thumping our chests a bit more...but as it stands, Danjiro's thoughts on the slain Yao-Tsu are far more indicative of our general opinion.

4. Danjiro's thoughts also make it plain that this war isn't over- indeed, it seems to just be getting fired up.
Sorry I should have been more clear. I meant it entirely in the story. By confidence in the pheonix shugenja I meant that in the story the pheonix garner the greatest shugenja the empire has ever seen, and that is known by all clans. So I think, personally and in a completely biased way as a Unicorn player/fan, that it would be cool to see the Empire's greatest shugenja' be out done by a bunch of "barbarian witch doctors" at their own game.
I shall act as Shinjo's jitte, breaking the sword of any who would harm her people.

Shiba Gunichi
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Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:15 am

Shinjo Kairu wrote:Sorry I should have been more clear. I meant it entirely in the story. By confidence in the pheonix shugenja I meant that in the story the pheonix garner the greatest shugenja the empire has ever seen, and that is known by all clans. So I think, personally and in a completely biased way as a Unicorn player/fan, that it would be cool to see the Empire's greatest shugenja' be out done by a bunch of "barbarian witch doctors" at their own game.
Sorry, but the Mantis and Dragon have both (humiliatingly) beaten you to that.

Tamori Shaitung one-shotted the entire friggin' Elemental Council, and the Mantis routinely made Phoenix shugenja seem irrelevant in their multiple beatdowns of the Phoenix.

Frankly, the story needs to shore up the Phoenix's magical supremacy, not knock it down a peg- they're all we've got, after all. Our conventional military gets no respect and Phoenix diplomacy over the last few years has been one gigantic "how not to do things" manual.

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DojiAzai
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Sat Jun 27, 2015 11:43 pm

I have yet to find ANYONE who can cogently defend the Council's approach to the matter. It's why the Winter Court treaty worked out to be, in essence, a Phoenix surrender- because none of us, as players, could think of a way in which the Council hadn't needlessly botched things.
I'm pretty sure I have already made my arguments on this known. I didn't write the Phoenix-Unicorn conflict, but I can easily understand why it exists the way that it does.

My Cogent Argument:
* A Phoenix discovered dark knowledge about one of the largest families in the Empire.
* She presented the information to higher authorities.
* Said authorities researched on their own in private and determined it to be correct.
* Phoenix reached out to the appropriate individuals. In this case, that was the Jade Champion (as one of the key defenders of the spiritual soul of the Empire) and the Unicorn.
* The Unicorn rebuffed all immediate attempts by telling the Phoenix to stay out of their business.

Speculation Break:
* The Phoenix - many of them at least - consider themselves to be the Guardians and Keepers of the Empire's Soul. Much like the Crab consider themselves to be the defenders against darkness; or the Crane think of themselves as the cultivators of the Empire's culture; or the Scorpion consider themselves the keepers of secrets and the "defenders in shadow." In any case, the Phoenix Elemental Council see any and all attacks against the soul of the Empire as falling under their purview.
* The curse of the Unicorn is, in the minds of the Phoenix, a serious and immediate danger to the Soul of the Empire. Not only are the Unicorn ignoring attempts to help fix the problem, they have already had generations to breed into other clans and spread the so-called infection. They will continue to do so with rampant abandon unless the Phoenix do SOMETHING.
* The Jade CHampion, also a Phoenix, would think along the same lines.
* Since the Unicorn have rebuffed immediate attempts and the Phoenix consider the matter to be of the utmost importance and requiring immediate attempts to resolve, they did what they had to do by sending out the research to EVERYONE involved.
* The Phoenix are not stupid. They realized that sending out this information was an affront to the Unicorn and would be met with retaliation. They could have gone the more diplomatic route, but believed that the danger was clear and immediate. Each year, each month, each day of waiting could see another Unicorn with the curse affecting someone else in the Empire. By revealing the information the Phoenix call down the wrath of the Unicorn. However, they also force Shinjo's clan to deal with the problem and, most likely, put a temporary halt on the Unicorn intermarrying with other clans. The war is a byproduct and can be dealt with while the Phoenix and Unicorn and anyone else attempt to figure out a solution.

The Phoenix are literally sacrificing their own people and, in part, their public face, to save the soul of the Empire.

If that isn't reason enough for their actions, I don't know what else to tell you. I can certainly say that the Elemental Masters are not stupid, or lacking in foresight.
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Shi-Tien Yen-Wang for WC IV
*Athos*Team Stella
L5R Story Team

Shiba Gunichi
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Sun Jun 28, 2015 8:52 am

And had the rollout of what the Curse means (and frankly, it's still unclear and self-contradictory in places-it seems to be a general "nebulous bad stuff happens to people, but the readers have seen no sign in any story to date that the Moto are especially spiritually unlucky") been less "the Phoenix are saying rude things in Court and waving their arms around about how awful it is and you should take their word for it" and more "no, really, this actually matters, even if the Phoenix are being rude about it, witness Horrible Curse Fallout A," there might have been more... variety in how the bulk of readers have perceived the issue.

As it stands, I've heard nobody who isn't on the Story Team voice any but the most tepid support for how the Phoenix went about things.

Shinjo Yosama
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Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:06 pm

DojiAzai wrote:
The Unicorn rebuffed all immediate attempts by telling the Phoenix to stay out of their business.
I wonder why? I understand perhaps the young shugenja being rebuffed, but why would the Jade Champion also be rebuffed?

DojiAzai wrote:
* The Phoenix are not stupid. They realized that sending out this information was an affront to the Unicorn and would be met with retaliation. They could have gone the more diplomatic route, but believed that the danger was clear and immediate. Each year, each month, each day of waiting could see another Unicorn with the curse affecting someone else in the Empire. By revealing the information the Phoenix call down the wrath of the Unicorn. However, they also force Shinjo's clan to deal with the problem and, most likely, put a temporary halt on the Unicorn intermarrying with other clans. The war is a byproduct and can be dealt with while the Phoenix and Unicorn and anyone else attempt to figure out a solution.
During the meantime anyone, and everyone bearing the Unicorn Mon is target for social prejudice up to and including assault, or murder. Families are shattered, refugees pour into Unicorn lands. My perspective of this as Unicorn is revealing the curse in this manner serves as a catalyst to drive a wedge further between our realm and Tengoku. While the curse still stands, there is no recourse we can take either, except fight back. Even if the curse wound is ever healed, prejudice will remain. That will just be human nature.

I do hope that this young shugenja who found the wound is still following the trail laid before her by the fortunes. Afterall she abolished her own cherished marriage, my hopes is she can complete her journey before it cost her, or her ex-husband their life.

Shinjo Yosama, Gaijin Eta by proclaimation of the Phoenix. Unicorn Samurai by birth, and pledge to Shinjo.

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RavenSoul
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Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:06 am

The Unicorn (the Moto, actually) took care of their previous curse, by having the Champ himself face a few Gods (your ten) so, its not like they dont care about what curses them. Probably another lack of communication... again.
One would think they would solve it as fast as their can, knowing this was not their first time dealing with one. If the Phoenix can help, sure, they could, and I see why they pressed the panic button, I am just not sure how that can help. Starting a war (wich would be inevitable after said button being pressed) doesnt really strike me as being of any help to get the problem fixed in the fastest way possible. As much as I hate the idea, the recording of the geneology would be the less interveening of the possible course of action while still being helpful.

In any case, drama is always needed and I see how that can bring more story opportunities, and keeping the Unicorn as a whole been seen with prejudice is taking them to their roots again, keeping them an "outsider" clan. Not that it bothers me specificaly, just feels like a bit of a slap in the face to the hundreds of years of work of the Ide to get them closer to the other clans. With all the "DARK OMENS" just spouting from the ground everywhere lately, thats not just a "d*ck move", its really pushing for another problem, making more enemies exactly when you should be making friends. I would argue that if they could see this curse as a problem, why werent they able to see other stuff, aparently there is a dark omen under every rock in the empire.
They found this one, warned the right people, then should have gone and found more. The fact that it is spreading a little bit for every second it passes loses its power when putting MORE stress in between both clans that come solve it in the most efficient way. Thats a bit of a disapointment, from a problem-solving point of view... I would say that was the councils own "Moto Curse" activation for the worst possible result.
Unicorn Clan • Samurai • Chui • Reserve • Reverse-Destined

I was Ide Ibiki at WC IV

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